1) Vets don't like to see cysts on tails as there is so very little skin there. 2) If the blood coming out of the cyst is purple, this means thereis an infection. 3) The vet can try to cauterize a burst cyst, an attempt to kill the lining of the cyst. 4) Some cysts, even after bursting, cauterizing, and a course of antibiotics, continue to manufacture the goop that cysts are made of. The pressure of the goop building up once more makes the dog attack the site again, bursting it, relieving the pressure until the cyst builds again. This of course creats a never ending cycle. 5) These cysts will need to be removed surgically. 6) Have the vet put your dog on antibiotics for at least a week before cyst surgery. The surgery may prove to not need operating, and if it does need surgery, it makes a far smaller surgical site... ALWAYS. 7) Even on the vet's table, people will still remove those little tufts of hair from shedding elkies! :D ***** The above contribution by Nancy Millis-MacHaffie ***** There are many kinds of cysts, one being the epidermoid or infundibular cyst. Other names are epidermal cyst or epidermal inclusion cyst. This just refers to the type of cells found within the cyst. If the cell structure includes hair follicle cells, it might be termed a follicular cyst. If it includes a sebaceous (oil) gland), the cyst is a sebacous cyst. And there can also be a pilar cyst and a colloquial term used for a type of cyst called a wen. But a infundibular cyst simply means the cells a epidermal cells. They might be found in areas that are prone to acne in people, more common in some locations on trunk the dog. They are nodular, doughy subcutaneous lesions, normally pigmented or yellow or white in color. They are uncommon prior to puberty and are generally considered secondary to cystic degeneration of odontogenic embryonic stem cells or traumatic inclusions of surface epithelium. So a dog that is cut when groomed might have a cyst form comprised of epithelial cells. Now multiple cysts may also occur - and quite commonly - as a result when the dog has folliculitis and the healing includes epidermal cells - cysts may form. And there is a variant of basal cell carcinoma where a infundibular cyst appears. So as far as plain old cysts, simple excision if they become irritating and vicks doesnt work OTOH, there is a genetic variation known to occur in people and mice.I have only seen one dog that I think fits theis case - a Bouvier - but since it is a genetic variation, it can occur at any time in any mammal which has similar embryonic development. The gene in humans is the chromosom five in a location known as the APC locus. A stands for adenomatous, c is colon?, and p is polyposis. Again, the gene is called that, but the gene controls more than the colon. Three different "diseases" caused by translocations or truncations of this sequence in humans (chromosome 18 in mice). One condition is familial adenomatous polyopsis. One is known as Gardner's syndrome, which fits this (I think) and the Bouvier. The third is Turcot's (she mutters, not checking that one because I think this is Gardner's). Gardner's can certainly have variable signs. And while it is caused by a deviation at the APC locus, it certainly is found in human medicine that some individuals have normal colons. Epidermoid cysts of Gardner syndrome occur at an early age and in less common locations that are not generally associated with trauma to the epidermal layer. Cysts tend to be multiple and are present in the multiple form in 50-65% of patients in people. Like normal infundibular cysts, cysts in Gardner syndrome usually are not a significant problem, but like normal infundibular cysts,they can become oozy or inflamed or rupture. Other associated problems are polyps in the colon, as many as 100 in some cases. Osteomas - bony tumors, Extra teeth or unerupted teeth. And the bad news is that the polyps that do occur associated with this defect are 100% malignant - they will become malignant unless they are removed. And then I get a little lost because this has something to do with the inability to recognize the restriction enzyme (not a digestive enzyme or food enzyme but enzyme like gene structure) and TaqI which has to do with tumor suppression. And another result is the development of infundibular cysts as a problem with normal matebolic housekeeping. In humans (and in mice), Gardner's is considered autosomal dominant because homozygotes die in utero. It may have multiple expressions based on the exact place of truncation or translocation coding error. So different allele variations may result in different errors in genetic structure, which may vary according to date the coding turns on and is expressed. In some humans, no polys are ever found - although most do develop polyps (and evidence of early changes in the colon are generally seen.) My best recommendation is probably to check out most recent research into Gardner's and recomemndations for people. If the infundibular cysts are simply multiple cysts, I'm not sure there is generally anything done except to keep the dog free of problems arising from the cysts. There are many breed people successfully treating cysts with Vicks VapoRub or alternately Stridex medicated pads for acne - the alcohol-free until they go away. This was passed on to me by a friend in our breed with the experience: CYSTS OR TUMORS? There is often talk among Elkhound lovers about skin eruptions or cysts that appear on their dogs occasionally, or, as the case with my Elkhound Cookie, much more than occasionally. Often these eruptions or sores are incorrectly diagnosed and referred to as sebaceous gland cysts when in fact they are actually something quite different. After a number of years of research, I have found out that it is a condition unknown to many veterinarians and breeders, and though it can be seen in Old English Sheepdogs, German Shepherds, and Collies, it is primarily seen in Norwegian Elkhounds and Keeshonds. The condition is called Intracutaneous Cornifying Epithilioma, formerly called Keratoacanthoma. These tumors, as opposed to cysts, are much more complex and are thought to start in the skin between the hair follicles. Since the word tumor tends to scare, it is important to stress that they are benign and do not metastasize or spread to other organs in the body. Much of the research I’ve read indicates that the condition occurs in dogs five and under and most often in males but this is not a hard and fast rule as my Elkhound first showed signs of the condition after age five and is female. There are two ways the condition can show up; most often, a single tumor appears usually on the neck and/or shoulder area. A dog may have one or a few of these over the course of many years that need to be removed surgically or sometimes they can be drained and heal on their own. The second pattern, more rare, is the generalized form of the disease which is many recurrent tumors that appear in the skin at one time, in different locations on the body and in various stages of development. These growths can appear quite different, sometimes just a small lump under the skin that can get to be bigger quite quickly or they may grow slowly over time. Sometimes a hole forms on the outside of the lump and the cavity inside is filled with a white/yellow grainy or tiny pearl like matter that is actually keratin, the substance your hair and nails are made of. Often the keratin forms and dries on the outside of the skin ranging from large cauliflower like clumps to small nubs which act as plugs to the openings to the cavities. I have also seen small hard lumps with a hole and no sign of the keratin at all often located in the flank or ankle area. If these are reachable, your dog may lick at these incessantly or not want them touched, this is often an indication of a deep, multi chambered keratin filled cavity which are difficult to drain. Whether your dog experiences one or many tumors the treatment is largely the same, one of monitoring and maintenance. With tenacity and some education for you and your vet, your dog’s quality of life shouldn’t have to suffer. The most stubborn growths will need to be removed through surgery. Some underlying tumors that don’t form an opening can often be left alone if they don’t swell or fester. Other than surgery there are treatments you can administer yourself which can address the problem dramatically. If the growths have formed an opening so that the medicines can get in and the keratin can get out you will have the most luck. I have had great results with frequent baths using a medicated shampoo called Sebolux. If you have many areas affected with growths, even small nubs, a full bath is the best way to tackle everything at once, or you can spot treat one or two growths if that is all that you are dealing with. I have found that when my dog’s coat and skin begins to have a greasy texture, a good Sebolux bath can keep the growths and lesions from blowing up. It is essential that the shampoo be lathered vigorously for at least ten full minutes to the crusty dried keratin which will break up and dissolve easily and wash away. By removing the plugs the shampoo actually helps to draw out the keratin and keep the matter from backing up inside. Even if the areas are raw or bloody, a gentle but thorough lathering will clean them up and make them feel much better. Elkhounds are notorious for hating baths but they can get used to the idea (even you can, in time) if they are exposed to them more regularly. No one likes to cut the beautiful fur of an Elkhound but it does grow back and a little trimming around the sores can help a lot. Keeping the fur from drying to the sores which hinders drainage and air drying of the wound. It seems to me the condition always gets worse in the hot weather months so extra baths at this time can be helpful and keep your dog more comfortable in general. I have used a non-sharp, large needled syringe that I fill with Hydrogen Peroxide so that I can direct a stream of peroxide into the openings of the cavity. Peroxide helps to bubble up some of the matter inside and to keep the affected area clean. Sometimes a mixture of cortisone and antibiotic cream can help to bring some healing to an inflamed area that looks infected. A good mixture that comes in a tube with a pointed nozzle is called Panalog which you can ask your vet to prescribe. A clean washcloth soaked in water as hot as possible and applied as a compress for five or ten minutes can help bring down the swelling of an inflamed lump and sometimes allow you to express some of the keratin from inside. I have drained and healed many tumors this way, which helps keep the vet visits down. In the generalized form of the disease where the tumors are high in number, a relatively new drug treatment has shown some amazing success. The drug, called Etretinate or brand name, Tegison is a retanoid or vitamin A derivative. It is a people drug, (this is also a people disease) every expensive $90.00 a month and though it has many serious side effects in people, there seem to be few in dogs that outweigh the benefits. The drug takes sometimes two months or so before results many be seen. In my Elkhounds case it has improved her condition dramatically. Cookie has been on the drug for over a year and the one time I tried taking her off, the tumors all began reappearing in force within six weeks. She will remain on the drug the rest of her life. In the research my veterinarian and I have done, no other drug treatment such as prednisone, antibiotics or chemotherapy have shown to be at all effective. Other than Etretinate and an antibiotic after a surgery, I would strongly question any drug prescribed for this condition. If your dog has had anything resembling what I have taken too long here to describe, I urge you to show it to your veterinarian and take along the name of this disease and ask that it be looked up. If either of you are in doubt about any growths you find, ask your vet to do a biopsy to be certain of what you are dealing with. My hope is that this may help anyone out there who has been baffled by strange lumps and sores their dog may have developed. I also feel strongly that it is important to bring this information to the attention of breeders, some of whom I have found to be woefully unaware of this genetically transmitted disease. Though the disease is not in essence life threatening, there are many people who would not and could not bear the time and expense this condition demands. Before I thankfully stumbled upon a vet who took the care to help me research the disease, my Elkhound went through years of countless surgeries, proddings, lancings, infections and maybe worst of all, no one but her two closest humans wanted to touch her. Cookie was finally sheared to her skin, except for her head and tail, so we could aggressively tend to all her growths and sores and started on the Etretinate. It wasn’t until then that real improvement began for her. No animal should go through this if it can be avoided through genetic testing and responsible breeding. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has experienced this disease, especially the generalized form and would gladly offer any more information I can. Below is the phone number for Tufts University Veterinarian Research Library where I am still doing research on this. I recommend them for gaining research materials on any health issue you might be facing in your animals. For a reasonable fee and sometimes free, they will send or fax you articles from their references. I can’t close this without saying that Cookie, my brave, 10 year old, rescued Elkhound has been worth every effort and dollar spent. The disease does get worse with age and I always found it to be much worse in the summer. For bad cases the drug mentioned above has certainly changed my Elkies life and the shampoo is a must for semi bad to occasional cases...Someone mentioned a twig coming out of the side of their dog, this is the dried keratin mentioned above. I have never noticed any particular food connection, doesn’t mean that there isn’t one, but in my experience changes in foods had no effect and I feel time can be better spent with other avenues of treatment. Hope this helps some of you it is disconcerting to see that this problem seems to be getting as more Elkhounds are appearing. If I can bee of further help toany of you I will be glad to do what I can. Please post this wherever it might help anyone. Good Luck Nan Irwin nkidesign@earthlink.net Tufts University Veterinarian Library, 607 chapel Street, New Haven Ct. 06510